India Awakens

India Awakens conference

We are planning a conference in India, late 2016 or 2017. The conference will be titled “India Awakens.” Everything besides the conference’s name and rough time-frame is open, so please join the discussion.

Created by Turing Church member and contributor Nupur Munshi, “India Awakens” is a Facebook community page for discussion of our ideas with an Indian slant. The page is mainly aimed at Indian but open to seekers from everywhere, so please Like the page and join the discussion.

Please see Nupur’s posts, my “Turing Church Intro for India Awakens,” and of course the “India Awakens” Facebook page.

See also the preliminary discussion in the comments to “Thoughts on Submission, Islam, and the West.”

  • Nupur Munshi

    In the Indian tradition we bow and touch the feet of a person in the spirit of reverence.
    Let me touch your feet,Sir,in absolute awe,gratitude and respect .Your grace and blessing will usher a grand beginning to the India Awakens conference

    • Giulio Prisco

      Now, now, that’s flattering but far too much and undeserved. In the Western tradition, I virtually hug you. Let’s get started!

      • Nupur Munshi

        You are the expert please suggest . You are always there, Dr. Perry, Dr. Goertzel …No I am not going to do this. I am too small..You have to do this.

        • Giulio Prisco

          Nupur next time you say that you are small I’ll be very upset. You are big Big BIG. Please repeat that a few times gradually increasing the volume, last should be a defiant scream :-) :-)

          I am sure Ben and Mike would give great talks. Other names that come immediately to my mind are Lincoln Cannon, Robert Geraci, Eric Steinhart, Bill Bainbridge, Martine Rothblatt… Let’s think of a good llst.

          Now, how about local speakers? Pls reply to the top comment to keep discussion threaded.

          • Nupur Munshi

            Mr Cannon and Dr.Geraci are also my favorites as I have talked to them they are wonderful. Others I know through your writing.Local speakers …What kind are you looking for,some one who knows the subject and acquainted with our ideas?

          • Giulio Prisco

            I think some local speakers should emphasize the parallels between Cosmism and Eastern thinking, and perhaps one keynote could provide an introduction to Hinduism and other forms of Eastern spirituality for newcomers.

            The in-person audience will be mostly locals, but if we video stream the talks or at least put all videos on YouTube later (and I think we should definitely do that), the audience will be global, which justifies at least one introductory talk.

          • Nupur Munshi

            I think we have enough time to find out a good speaker for that. Ma’m Kathy Wilson is enthusiastic and extends her support to the conference.

          • spud100

            N.M. hello.
            Questions:
            1.Are many, by profression, of your coferences, scientifically minded? Meaning would be engineers, astronomers, biologists, and physicists? Any idea about your audiences?

            2 Have you or your group worked on an “scientifically-inspired” afterlife theory, yet? I am guessing no, because the topic is so difficult, and thus, becomes, what in thbe US we call, “a hot potato,” meaning, something too uncomfortable to handle.

            Thanks,
            Mitch

          • Nupur Munshi

            Hi… M and “namaste” to you.
            Dr. Prisco and myself and others are expecting both scientifically minded and spiritual minded audience for our conference.In fact,all kinds of minds! Since the only group I know which is working on as you say “scintifically inspired after life”” with a “thousand flowers bloom”strategy is Turing Church. Facebook community India Awakens is an integral part of this group that I respect so much. I believe you are also a member of this group and Dr. Prisco’s ideas are interesting and let us work a little harder to realize his ideas. It is absolutely a novel concept in India and perhaps the conference would serve as an awareness program and may be more helping hands from talented India.
            Thank you
            Nupur.

          • spud100

            Very good, Napur, and great successes for your conferences.my question is based on the notion of science in service to humanity, and one of the ways service might be provided, is science assisting humankind through spirituality.

            -mitch

            @Guilio,

            No disagreement, however I was wondering if scientist areless, attacked, by their colleagues, in India, than the US? If an Indian professor does not face retribution from his or her fellows, because their civilization is less hateful of the spiritually led scientists? Then progress could be made in this area, rather than self censoring.

            M.

          • Giulio Prisco

            I consider the harassment of spiritually inclined scientists as one more symptom of the politically-correct (PC) un-culture that is invading the West.

            If you want to be in academy in the US or Europe you are supposed to be one of those ridiculous Social Justice Warriors (SJWs) that are making headlines these days, and rabid atheism is part of the un-cultural package that you are forced to accept – or else.

            I hope the PC un-culture is just a passing fashionable fad in the West (but it has already gone on too long imo), so I hope Eastern societies are immune. I look forward to finding out more.

          • spud100

            Guilio, India with its many brilliant scientists, and engineers, and its enjoyment of the spiritual might mean that the brightest people there, are what we Yanks call “bullet-proof” In other words, contracts for employment are not hindered by their fellows. Neither is social banning a problem there, yet!

            Probably, if some of the elites here, in the US, started to lean in the direction of science and the spiritual, in a very, scientific way. A Peter Thiel, a Gates, a Ghosla. As you already know there are a couple of billionaires from Silicon Valley (Now San Francisco) whose interests trend this way.

            My view, or suspicion, is that the universe, the more that it is studied, with improved equipment, looks more and more like something computational. Think, Seth Lloyd, Tegmark, Paul Davies, even your amigo, Goertzel. This, I am guessing, is the direction the Horse is riding, so we ride this horse, unless something more interesting rides along.

            Mitch

          • Giulio Prisco

            I guess academicians and intellectual in India are comparatively free of the social pressure to conform to unthinking atheism than their colleagues here in the West, but – being human nature what it is – I suspect they may be vulnerable to social pressure to conform to other things, equally inimical to our ideas. pardon my cynicism, but I’ve seen a lot. I am sure Nupur can comment.

            The universe looks like something computational, but it runs on particles and fields instead of chips and wires, and the operating system is the laws of physics instead of Windows or Linux… so we are back at square one, but perhaps it’s the same thing… just typing fractal thoughts.

          • Nupur Munshi

            In India all these things that we call spiritual are just
            spontaneous and natural .So even those who call themselves “atheist”unconsciously adhere to the spiritual aspects in our life.They would saysomething like I don’t perform “shradh” (The ceremony or ritual to express gratitude and peace for the ancestors and the deceased soul) yet they Know what
            it is and may believe it’s significance.They would say I am not religious yet they would feel joyful being in holy places like “Kashi”,”Benaras”,Haridwar etc, They would read Tagore (whose creation rests on sole believe in Divinity) … for inspiration.

            I do not know much about the West (getting to know it better
            from you all), it seems the East that I know follow or I think should follow a more inclusive kind of functioning (isn’t that the Eastern philosophical teaching?).However,as Dr Prisco rightly pointed out …we are indeed at times vulnerable to social
            pressure when ideas are bit foreign.

            Mr Mitch you say that “contracts of employment are hindered
            by their fellow” I am really sad that this happens in your country. I used to think this “law of competition” so prevalent in the West is creeping in our culture when we here were happy
            following the “law of cooperation”. But D. Prisco is right… that is “human nature”.

          • Giulio Prisco

            Mitch is asking if intellectuals in Indian universities are subject to strong social pressures to be “liberal” atheists, as unfortunately happens in the US and Europe. From what you say I guess the answer is no, or at least not as much as in the US and Europe. Right?

          • Nupur Munshi

            Right.

          • Giulio Prisco

            Hi Mitch. Nupur answered the second part. Concerning scientifically-inspired afterlife theories, as you remember from previous discussions, I don’t really think current science is able to offer much more than the “poetic” hunches and glimpses that we are already discussing.

            I am afraid a rigorous scientific afterlife theory is still very far. But of course I could be wrong.

            I am thinking to start a collaborative meta-research (research on research) project to scan scientific articles and books and find, review, cross-reference, and discuss the most interesting and promising proposals for a scientific afterlife theory.

            The project would be at least inspiring for the participants and permit developing some kind of rough roadmap for future “akashic” science and tech, and we could have a first report in time for the conference.

            A question is which web framework is the best for the project. I am thinking on a wiki based on Mediawiki (like Wikipedia), either with access control (only authorized users can contribute), or completely open (everyone can contribute).

            Comments and suggestions welcome.

          • Giulio Prisco

            Nupur, see comment about Prof. Sisir Roy (it’s the first comment above at this moment). I think he would be a great local speaker.

          • Nupur Munshi

            I tried posting my reply to your comment above twice.It is not showing.I am replying here again.Sir, the link to Prof.Roy’s home page shows he worked at The Indian Statistical Institute,Physics and Mathematical Unit.The Institute is very close to my house and while doing my Research studies I worked there attended seminars and workshops . If he is presently in Kolkata I can contact him,directly at his office address in the Statistical Institute if you want.

          • Giulio Prisco

            Hi Nupur, strange that you couldn’t comment above. I am going through the book – it’s a great book, but it’s written in a very compact style and requires a deep background in both philosophy (Western and Eastern) AND mathematical quantum physics!!! I will try to write a summary of the main points.
            Yes, it would be great if you could contact Prof. Roy and ask him to be a keynote speaker at the conference.

          • Nupur Munshi

            Sir,I emailed Prof. Roy.(providing necessary links related to the conference).You will be very happy to know that he accepted our invitation to the conference and expressed his willingness to “give a talk”.He wanted me to keep informing him of the developments related to the conference.He is currently T.V. Raman Chair Visiting Professor at National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore,India.

          • Giulio Prisco

            I am very happy indeed! I am working on an article with a short review of his book and related thoughts, which should be finished and posted here in a couple of days. When does Prof. Roy go back to Kolkata?

          • Nupur Munshi

            Eager to read the article and I informed Prof. Roy about your review of his book “Demystifying the Akasha: Consciousness and the Quantum Vacuum.” I am not absolutely sure of when Prof.Roy goes back to Kolkata.I try let you know.

            Thanks.

          • Giulio Prisco

            I look forward to hearing your and his comments to my forthcoming book review. Do you have the book? There is a free downloadable version on Researchgate:

            http://www.researchgate.net/publication/281765423_DEMYSTIFYING_THE_AKASHA_Consciousness_and_the_Quantum_Vacuum

            I am starting to use the “Akashic” terminology, because the theory of the Akashic field (ref. Laszlo, Abraham and others, review forthcoming) is essentially equivalent to my ideas (or better, my half-baked ideas reflect the theories of giants like Laszlo).

            If we will ever be able to retrieve the informatiion to resurrect the dead, it means that the information exist somewhere in the fabric of reality, so the Akashic records exist. If the Akashic records exist in the fabric of reality, then someday science will be able to read them.

          • Giulio Prisco
          • Nupur Munshi

            Big Big BIG . Well- written.First I am sending the url to Prof.Roy.
            Now you have to say something here Sir.

          • Giulio Prisco

            Glad you like it Nupur. I would love to get in touch with Prof. Roy and ask him questions on some parts of the book that still elude me. Please also tell him that I love his previous book “Statistical Geometry” and wish I had discovered it sooner. When I was a physics student I has similar ideas and the book would have be of enormous help.

          • Nupur Munshi

            Sir,Prof.Roy asked for your mail to thank you for the review . Will I send the one you gave it to me?

          • Giulio Prisco

            Sure, giulio at gmail dot com.

          • Nupur Munshi

            Ok.Thanks.

  • Giulio Prisco

    Speakers: so Nupur who are the foreign speakers that would be most interesting for the audience?

  • Extropia DaSilva

    Someone who would make an excellent speaker would be Sadaputa Dasa (aka Richard L Thompson), author of the book ‘Maya: The World Of Virtual Reality’. He had some fascinating things to say about transhumanism and eastern mysticism in part three of the documentary ‘Technocalypse’.

    • Giulio Prisco

      Hi Extie – Sadaputa Dasa would make an excellent speaker indeed… but sadly he died in 2008:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_L._Thompson

      In the spirit of this conference, I look forward to inviting him to speak at a future conference, but unfortunately it can’t be now.

      Perhaps one of his former colleagues at the Bhaktivedanta Institute (the scientific branch of the Hare Krishna movement dedicated to examining the relationship of modern scientific theories to Swami Prabhupada’s Vaishnava worldview? ?
      http://www.bvinst.edu/

      • Extropia DaSilva

        Do not be sad. I am sure he would have regarded his death as a journey he had to take.

        • Giulio Prisco

          I am always sad when people are forced to leave the party, but I try to think of meeting them again at the next party after the journey.

          Like Benjamin Franklin, I hope we will all live again “in a new and more perfect edition, corrected and amended by the author.” Franklin’s words sounds very much like Eric Steinhart “revision” theory of afterlife.

  • Giulio Prisco
    • Nupur Munshi

      Thanks for the share.

      Exerpts (compiled)
      from the two articles of the mentioned links.

      1.“I hope conferences like this can address two purposes: extending our knowledge and improving our view of reality so we can better tackle our disturbing emotions.As a result of combining warm-heartedness with intelligence, I hope we’ll be better equipped to contribute to humanity’s well-being.”(Dalai Lama)

      2.” He (His Holiness the Dalai Lama) suggested that one characteristic feature of quantum physics, ‘entanglement’ or ‘non-separability’, is reminiscent of the Buddhist concept of dependent arising”. “ in Quantum Mechanics reality exists only when a measurement is made such that the observer is indeed influencing the observation, fusing the observer and the observed”

      3.On the one hand, the act of observation collapses the indeterminacy of the wave function into a definite reality: the cat in the box is either dead or alive,
      the beam of light is composed of either particles or waves, which is
      determined through the act of observation. Yet in each case, the underlying
      reality is that the cat and light don’t inherently have the characteristic of
      being alive or dead, or a a wave or particles; rather, the underlying reality, the wave function, is indeterminate and can only be quantified as a set of probabilities.

      3.”His Holiness insisted on the need for both physics and philosophy in the quest to overcome ignorance and end suffering, which are arguably the main aims of Buddhism.”

      My only comment is recently while compiling the quotes of Vivekananda I really liked his discourses on Advaita Vedanta I found this interesting. Here it is
      “The sun reflected from millions of globules of water appears to be millions of suns, and in each globule is a miniature picture of the sun-form; so all these souls are but reflections and not real. They are not the real “I” which is the God of this universe, the one undivided Being of the universe. And all these little different beings, men and animals etc. are but reflections, and not real. They are simply illusory reflections upon Nature”.

      “There is but one Infinite Being in the universe, and that Being appears as you and as I; but this appearance of divisions is after all a delusion. He has not been divided, but only appears to be divided. This apparent division is caused by looking at Him through the network of time, space, and causation” (“The Complete Works of Swami
      Vivekananda/Volumes 2 and 3).If it really reflects “Madhaymak” I don’t know.

      Sir please your comments now.

      • Giulio Prisco

        I love these Swami Vivekananda quotes!

        I think what he says – that the fundamental fabric of reality can’t be divided into individual beings – is correct from a fundamental, cosmic viewpoint. It also essentially agrees with the implications of quantum physics mentioned by the Dalai Lama.

        Kant thought that our assumptions about reality, including space and time, are not fundamental but artifacts of our built-in human way of interpreting our perceptions. Modern physics seems to say the same about causality and self. So you and I aren’t really individual beings but parts of an undivided whole, and our feeling of being individuals is an illusion.

        However, our feeling of individual self-awareness is important to us, and still required in this phase of our evolution. Perhaps our descendants will feel as parts of the cosmic whole, but we cherish our individuality. We will get there from here, but we are still here and the journey to there is long.

        I think a person should have two minds – a cosmic mind that contemplates the fundamental unity of being, and a personal mind that perceives and acts upon the world of here-and-now – and should find ways for the two minds to agree and support each other. This is part of the important synthesis of Eastern and Western thinking that we should promote.

        • Nupur Munshi

          Sir,You are the perfect speaker we are looking for who can deal with almost anything,specially the synthesis that you so nicely explained in the last paragraph.So we can have speakers (foreign and local) speaking on Cosmism ,Eastern thinking and spirituality,Hinduism,Scientific Afterlife,etc.and you summing- up each speech stressing on the East- West synthesis.
          Thanks and also thanks to M for his support.
          So when we all come back in our after life lets hope we come back with those” two minds”,one that will “cherish individuality” and the other that “contemplates the fundamental unity of being”. Awesome

          • Giulio Prisco

            Sounds like a plan, but the summing up is usually done after the conference, in writing. Of course I would be honored to write a summary with some conclusions and new ideas.

            I guess we’ll come back with two minds indeed, but perhaps the individual mind will become closer to the cosmic mind. And then even closer when we come back the following time… and then even closer, and so forth, until the two become one and we reach Nirvana or something like that.

  • Giulio Prisco

    @Nupur – a great local speaker would be Prof. Sisir Roy. Together with well known methematician Prof. Ralph Abharams, he wrote a very intriguing book: “Demystifying the Akasha: Consciousness and the Quantum Vacuum.” The book expands on Erwin Laszlo’s theories. I am writing a review.

    A version of the book (perhaps not the final version but close enough) is available as a free download:
    http://www.researchgate.net/publication/281765423_DEMYSTIFYING_THE_AKASHA_Consciousness_and_the_Quantum_Vacuum

    Prof. Roy says:
    “I have been working on Planck scale physics and discreteness vs continuum of spacetime since the beginning of the 21st century. The epistemological issues involved in this context attracted me towards Buddhist and Yoga philosophy. Buddhist scholar Vasuvandhu made a critical analysis of discreteness vs continuum, and the Hindu scholar Kanad propounded the concept of atom, many centuries ago. In this process of learning the various epistemological debates, I met Professor Ralph Abraham and his deep interest in these issues. So a fruitful collaboration began and led to this book. My wife Malabika Roy has been very supportive and helped me a lot in clarifying these epistemoligcal debates among Buddhist and Hindu scholars.”

    Prof. Roy is in Kolkata, this page has his email (I don’t know if the page is up to date). Perhaps you could contact him.

  • R Michael Perry

    I’m interested in the conference. It’s a long way to travel for me but maybe a possibility. Or attend electronically if that will be an option.

    • Giulio Prisco

      Hi Mike, the plan is to stream the videos of the talks, but you should really plan to come in person. I hope we will raise enough money to reimburse travel expenses to speakers coming from far away, so perhaps you could give a talk….

  • Giulio Prisco

    Hi Mike, the plan is to stream the videos of the talks, but you should really plan to come in person. I hope we will raise enough money to reimburse travel expenses to speakers coming from far away, so perhaps you could give a talk.

  • pissed off american

    giulio prisco
    aether–“the force awakens”…good luck getting usable information/knowledge there…cult people have been wrecking the minds of these avatars!

  • Nupur Munshi

    This is in reply to Ma’m Kathy Wilson’s short message .Ma’m please see the preliminary discussion in the comments to “Thoughts on Submission,Islam and the West”,the link provided above, where Dr Prisco suggests some fine planning strategies for the conference.The conference will take place in Kolkata,late 2016 i.e winter or early 2017 spring time in Kolkata.